Welcome to IDDD Doubled Die page, die's listed here are coins sent in for attribution to us, new die's will be listed.
Research on the Doubled die's is on going any changes and or new information will be included and reported.
Each coin is made from a single working die.
This and the other doubled die pages are evolving.
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IDDD Eisenhower Doubled Die standards and explanations.
Obverse Family
Research work is on going with changes made as realized, we have 11 hub/die families.
Each family represents a different hub number and the working die's attached to that working hub.
Example of listings, ID Hub/Die 1 IDDDO-1 71 S PF WD-A P
IDDDO - stands for Double die obverse. IDDDR - stands for Double die reverse. IDDDV - stands for Variety.
S - stands for mint mark. PF - stands for Proof. BS - stands for Business strike.
WD - stands for Working die. WH - stands for Working hub. IDDP - stands for Ike dollar die pair.
Master die doubling, many attributors understand there are master die's that are doubled, the doubling pattern passes onto the working hub then onto the working die, but are all masters doubled? No, doubling can ac-cure in the hubbing while the working hub is being made via master die, so a working hub can be doubled in the process and not necessarily because of a doubled master die, master hubs can be doubled and transfer the doubled image all the way down the line to the working die, working hubs that are doubled transfer the doubled image onto the working die, also as the working die is being hubbed any misalignment in the settings can cause further doubling, tripling, etc. to the finished working die, abrasion doubling happens when abrading a die heavily also can happen from polishing, and age of die can show severe distortion in the form of an open serif most always looks mushy, not crisp.
A working hub that is already doubled will produce doubling from a same Hub with the same doubling pattern on all working die's produced from that working hub that was already doubled, mint marks are put on die's, these mint marks and the location of them are markers for working die's and shows that each working die is some what different then the next = WD ( WD = working die of hub/die family ) the letter after WD breaks down further the working die for that group hub/die family of doubled die's that were already doubled working hub.
The last letter P stands for peg-leg abraded R in liberty and S for full serif R in liberty.
Below--LINKS are in BLUE Click any link to bring you to the Die number you would like to research, to return just click the link on the description, the link will be in BLUE. A P will be added at the end of the link for Peg leg R in liberty, full serif R in liberty will show an S for serif at the end of the link.
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IDDD Eisenhower dollar die state scale for Proof dies only.
Die stage = die strike.. Strike AA = Die state = Very early die strike = VEDS.
Die stage = die strike.. Strike A = Die state = early die strike = EDS.
Die stage = die strike.. Strike B = Die state = early mid die strike = EMDS.
Die stage = die strike.. Strike C = Die state = Mid die state = MDS.
Die stage = die strike.. Strike D = Die state = Late mid die state = LMDS.
Die stage = die strike.. Strike E = Die state = Late die state = LDS.
The Ike Dollar die's as in all other die's of that time period were polished many times, this was done to keep the coin being produced to look pristine, if a clashing of die's ac-cured the mint worker would have to remove the clash image on the die by polishing and or abrading the die, if a die was damaged the mint workers would have to abrade the die and another polishing, if a die needs to be abraded it also receives a polishing to cover and clean up the rough abraded area, with all this going on we must also include the die's ware, as time goes on the die its self is removed from production do to use.. The above information are some of the reasons we need a STAGE - STRIKE - DIE STATE scale definitions, another would be so we can have a firm understanding, I find it alarming that a coin that is frosted up after a beautification, some may say this coin must be an early struck coin, but is it really? I have in my possession coins just like what I just described, beautiful but is it really an early struck coin? Not necessarily, because the coins die may have just gone through a ( Beautification ) polishings and enhancements to the raised area's of the die and the field, this is done to keep the coin that is produced from any given proof working die to continue to look good, this technique the mint employed has a direct implication to the die's life and die state at any given time, early die struck coin's are the rarest and we need to know the difference between the earliest struck specimens and the later struck specimens, as you can see we have many reasons for this need to know.. below is something I have worked on for a long time, it works well.
2011 IDDD Eisenhower dollar die state scale for Proof Die's.
All die's are polished before use.
Obverse VEDS strike AA: Close WE ( W & E touch ) is not abraded at this stage.. ( Space between the W and E of WE touch or very close too touching one another, a residue bridge may be seen between the WE do to polishing ) polished at this stage.
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Obverse EDS strike A: Close WE.. Die can be abraded at this stage, die's are polished at this stage. ( Space between the W & E of WE are close too each other but do not touch, also the edges of the WE are well defined )
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Obverse EMDS strike B: Semi close WE ( Space seen between the W & E of WE ) die's have been polished multiple times at this stage, abraded at least once, the edges of W & E are not defined very well from polishings, from this point and on the space seen between the W and E of WE will continue to grow, general note, because of die abrasion and polishings many letters are not crisp and have loss of detail.
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Obverse MDS strike C: Open WE ( The W & E of WE now have a wide open space between them ) the letters W & E of WE can be weak at the tops of both letters do to abrading and polishings. some letters show weakness towards the center ( head-bust ) on occasion the weakness is seen towards the rim ( Tops of letters )
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Obverse LMDS strike D: Open W E.. at this point the die has been polished & abraded many times, the space between the W & E is wide now and the WE can be deformed at this stage of the die's life, at this stage some doubled die's are not attributable because of ware of the die and all the die abrasions and polishings the die received.
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Obverse VLDS strike D: Same description as above with the space between the W E even wider apart from each other then LDS and deformed do to die abrasion and polishings, this would be the end of die life.
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Die/Hub Markers
Markers are used for determining dies at various die stages and/or die states, some markers on dies happen earlier before the die is actually put to use such markers are rare, most markers are short lived only lasting till the next set of abrasions and or polishings that are applied for various reasons, mint mark positioning is among one of the best markers as the mint mark is placed on the die before the die is put to use, and lasts till the die is removed from service, we use scratches from polishings and abrasions unfortunately only last for a short time, the short-lived markers do help us unfortunately most are available for one or two die states.
A ( Cut mark "line" ) before the die is put into service the die itself is put through a polishing of the fields and frosting to all the devices, a clear cellophane ( Masking ) is put on the die by the mint worker then very carefully cuts the masking at the edge of the devices, when all the cutting to the cellophane is done the mint worker removes the masking from the devices leaving only the field covered, the devices are then frosted.
The cutting is very important and if done correctly the line is very difficult to see, if the cut line is on the device by error it becomes a marker that shows itself as a line usually lasting from a very early die state to later die states making the cut line a long-lasting or longer-lasting marker.
To date there are known reverse die's that have frosting in the mirrored field around the moon do to improper masking.
A Hub marker or damage to the hub happens before the die is made can also happen at any given time when being handled, dies are made directly from hubs and any error on the hub including gouges and or other introduced in the hubbing, scratches, etc. transfer to the die in the process, this type of marker usually lasts for a fair amount of time depending on the place of event also these markers help us to realize if a same hub is being used to produce Philadelphia, Denver, or San Francisco minted coins, small hub defects can be removed by die abrasion.
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Each family represents a different hub number and the working die's attached to that hub.
Example of the order of the listings, ID-HUB-1** IDDDO-1- die 1** IDDDO-001 WD-A**
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The Grail
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IDDDO Working Hub/Die family 1 for P & D & S Mints: Serif W.
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P Mint:
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D Mint:
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S Mint:
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IDDDO Working Hub/Die family 2 for P & D & S Mints: No serif W ( Doubled and Tripled )
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P Mint:
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D Mint:
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S Mint:
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IDDDO Working Hub/Die family 3:
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Proof S Mint:
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Silver S Mint:
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IDDDO Working Hub/Die family 4:
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Proof S Mint:
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Silver S Mint:
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IDDDO Working Hub/Die family 5:
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Proof S Mint:
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Silver S Mint:
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IDDDO Working Hub/Die family 6:
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P Mint:
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D Mint:
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S Mint:
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IDDDO Working Hub/Die family 7:
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P Mint:
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D Mint:
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S Mint:
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IDDDO Working Hub/Die family 8:
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P Mint:
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D Mint:
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S Mint:
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Obverse Master dies
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Unassigned DDO's
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Reverse Master dies
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Reverse Family
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Unassigned DDR's
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IDDDR Working Hub/Die family 1 Silver & CN BS:
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P Mint:
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D Mint:
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S Mint:
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IDDDR Working Hub/Die family 2 Silver & CN BS:
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P Mint:
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D Mint:
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S Mint:
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IDDDR Working Hub/Die family 3 Proof & BS S Mint: no serif A in states.
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Proof S Mint:
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Silver S Mint:
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IDDDR Working Hub/Die family 4 Proof & BS S Mint:
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Proof S Mint:
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Silver S Mint:
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IDDDR Working Hub/Die family 5 Proof & BS S Mint:
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Proof S Mint:
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Silver S Mint:
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IDDDR Working Hub/Die family 6 Proof and BS S Mint: serif A of states. = WHR-002.
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Proof S Mint:
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Silver S Mint:
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IDDDR Working Hub/Die family 7:
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IDDDR Working Hub/Die family 8:
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IDDDR Working Hub/Die family 9:
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Classes of Hub Doubled Dies
Class I Rotated Hub Doubling:
Happens when the Hub is re-struck up and not in the same position as the hubbing before, rotated hubbings at a pivot point near the center would result in rotational doubling, can be in a CW direction or a CCW direction and shows towards the rim.
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Class II Distorted Hub Doubling:
As the hub is heated and cooled is one area that creates a problem as well as if the hub has not cooled enough and re-struck can cause more distortions, improper cooling as well as improper heating if not done correctly will give a muttered distorted look, wrong metal elements can cause same type issues, if the hub was cooled but had a wrong metal mix some metal will cool before other metals and again can cause distortions, metals heat and cool at different temperatures and if a wrong or unintended metal is added can cause distortion as well.
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Class III Design Hub Doubling:
Happens when two different hubs are used to make a working die, slightly different designs, depending on the difference can show very little differences to just one letter or small area or the whole die again depending on the differences the hubs have.
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Class IV Offset Hub Doubling:
Happens when the hubbings are offset resulting in doubling that goes in a same direction with the same spread on the whole die.
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Class V Pivoted Hub Doubling:
Happens when the die is pivoted at a pivot point near the rim while being rehubbed resulting in in doubling opposite the pivot point, the doubling is strongest opposite the pivot point and decreases in a fan like shape as you move from the start of the doubling.
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Class VI Distended Hub Doubling:
Happens when the hub gets flattened or thickened or if the hub is to soft resulting in fat lettering and a general expansion of the image.
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Class VII Modified hub doubling:
Happens when a die is hubbed by a normal hub then being hubbed by a hub that was modified plus or minus original image.
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Class VIII Tilted Hub Doubling:-
Happens when the Hub is tilted when when contact is made with the die resulting in the doubling being stronger on one side while possibly no doubling on the opposite side.
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IDDD DDO's and DDR's
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1973 P Obverse
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1973 CN BS Obverse
Discovery Coin: IDDDO-1 73 P BS WD- IDDDR-1 73 P BS WD- IDDP-1. Cross Reference: Attributed by: IDDD Thomas Kalantzis. Class: Obverse Master Die. Reporter: Description: Reverse Description: Marker: Obverse Peg leg R of liberty, Reverse-Type-1. Date Recorded: 5/23/2009 POPULATION: 1. Comments: Value:
Reported by: Thomas Kalantzis.
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1973 D
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1973 D CN BS Obverse
Discovery Coin: IDDDO-M1 73 D IDDDR-M1 73 D IDDP-1.
Cross Reference:
Attributed by: IDDD Thomas Kalantzis.
Class: Obverse Master Die 1.. Reverse Master Die 1.
Reporter:
Description:
Reverse Description:
Marker: Obverse Full R of liberty.
Date Recorded: 5/23/2009
POPULATION: 1.
Comments:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ 1973 D CN BS Obverse
Discovery Coin: IDDDO-M2 73 D IDDDR-M1 73 D IDDP-1.
Cross Reference:
Attributed by: IDDD Thomas Kalantzis.
Class: Obverse Master Die 2.. Reverse Master Die 1.
Reporter:
Description:
Reverse Description:
Marker: Obverse Full leg R of liberty.
Date Recorded: 5/23/2009
POPULATION: 1.
Comments:
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1973 S
Silver and Copper Nickel
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1973 S CN BS Obverse
Discovery Coin: IDDDO-M1 73 S IDDDR-M1 73 S IDDP-1.
Cross Reference:
Attributed by: IDDD Thomas Kalantzis.
Class: Obverse Master Die 1.. Reverse Master Die 1.
Reporter:
Description:
Reverse Description:
Marker: Obverse Peg leg R of liberty, Reverse-Type-1.
Date Recorded: 5/23/2009
POPULATION: 1.
Comments:
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1973 S CN PF Obverse
Discovery Coin: IDDDO-M1 73 S IDDDR-M1 73 S IDDP-2.
Cross Reference:
Attributed by: IDDD Thomas Kalantzis.
Class: Obverse Master Die 1.. Reverse Master Die 1.
Reporter:
Description:
Reverse Description:
Marker: Obverse Peg leg R of liberty, Reverse-Type-1.
Date Recorded: 5/23/2009
POPULATION: 1.
Comments:
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